Hong Kong United Airlines Update

July 21, 2012 - Rick

Some are suggesting this incident is over. Personally I think it is just beginning. With United unilaterally cancelling everyone’s four mile ticket last night, the opportunity to file a claim for actions taken by United just began. I filed my claim as I want:

A free trip to Hong Kong
To get the issue settled for future reference
To send United a wakeup call that unilateral action on their part is not sufficient reason to just let this go.

My position is simply this: When the DOT rules, I’ll abide by the decision without further question.

United has screwed this up royally from the moment they posted the four mile fare, through their first “unofficial announcement”, to their unilateral action of cancelling tickets they themselves issued without the courtesy of an email to anyone. I still have not received an email from United. I never saw the screens involved (somebody else booked the ticket for me). I do have a valid receipt issued by United.

I’ve been involved in mistake fares for the last 11 years; sometimes they are honored, sometimes they are not. This is just one mistake fare, that is all. And this game ain’t over til its over. When the DOT rules it is over for me and not before.

Others will take it further to civil action, count on it. We saw it with the previous mentioned LaQuinta deal and the plantiff won believe it or not after making 25 plus reservations. MM sued on the Catera Commerce disaster. That was his perogative under the American system. Let this run its proper course and that varies for each and every one of us. That is the game all of us play. Some just play harder than others.

duc1986d

Let our flight begin so that the next incidence can learn from this
Amber

let it gooooooooooooooooooooooooo! You just lost all referrals from my family.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Thanks for the note Amber. If I made my decisions on your referral business instead of letting the authorities decide I wouldn’t be true to myself. Best of luck to you

Flyer

You are just greedy.
Chrisbaxter22

“That is the game all of us play.”
Wrong. Some of us consider trying to force a business to give away something of extreme value for nothing in return due to an unintentional mistake or computer glitch unethical and have the integrity to not play this sort of “game.” Regardless of what the DOT may have to say about it.
This “game” you’re talking about basically consists of constantly watching a business’ every move like a hawk, just waiting to pounce on the slightest innocent mistake for the chance to force them to give you something of extreme value for nothing in return. If you owned that business I’m thinking you’d have a slightly different opinion on this little “game” of yours and the customers who are involved. But obviously you’ve already managed to rationalized this sort of behavior. Just don’t assume we all have.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Chris and I don’t assume we all have the same opinion, thats why we have the authorities to make the final judgement. I’ll gladly accept it instead of UA’s decision to act on their own. For some reason, people just can’t seem to wait?

Chrisbaxter22

You missed, or ignored, my point. Some of us don’t need to wait for some “authority” to tell us whether this predatory practice you’re pushing (this “game” as you call it) is ethical or not. As you can tell by many of the reactions here (some of which definitely cross the line) many of us are somewhat disappointed in your stand on this, probably because we expected the generally respected Sage of the miles game would set more of an ethical example than this. Such is life.
Good luck in your endeavor to find someone to force United to give you a free trip to Hong Kong.

Dissapointed

True colors shining through…
Cogswell

Wow, you are kind of a dick. I just started reading your blog but think I will stick with the much less jerky Points Guy

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

I’d like to say I’ll miss you , but anyone that uses that type of language over miles and points won’t be missed at all. Best of luck to you.

http://hktravelblog.com/ Chris

I’m a bit disappointed, as you obviously know this is a mistake fare, and you’re still insisting of trying to get the trip for free. However, I agree that the fact that you haven’t received any communication from them as appalling.

I feel because award fares are published and set, this doesn’t really fall under the new DOT rules. As opposed to revenue fares which fluctuate and you never really know if the price is $200 or $1000, so that’s a big easier to argue for your side.
But overall I think people who signed up for this knew it was an obvious mistake and shouldn’t expect to get something for free. If you bought the ticket for only a few hundred dollars, I see the legitimacy. (And people wonder why the airlines are broke.)
BobChi

Disgusting. Pure, unadulterated self-entitled greed. You are not entitled to a free trip to Hong Kong just because you learned of a mistake from someone. I definitely hope you lose. Actually I’d love to see United grow a pair and cancel your account.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

If I lose, I lose and move on with life. And believe me Bob, I considered when filing my claim the fact that United may cancel my account. It takes a pair to stand by your convictions and want a definitive answer to a area grey in the original ruling. BTW I have not returned to the Catera Commerce Eshopping mall either.

Rick

Give it a rest you psycho nut.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

I’ve been called worse. Thanks for your comment. It really added to the discussion.

http://www.frequentflyeruniversity.com/ FrequentFlyerUniversity

Rick, how did you go about filing a claim?

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

The address is on the Flyertalk thread. Sorry I don’t have it handy. Simple form BTW. Just state the facts and let the authorities decide.

JD

And the word for the day is “Unilateral”
http://twitter.com/AZTravelGuy Erik

I’m missing something. You didn’t get in on the deal while it was live, correct? Or did you? I thought you missed out. If you missed the deal, you’re whining because you missed the equivalent of a sale (mistake/award or not). You don’t file a claim because you didn’t buy something when it was on sale.

Whether you got in on the deal or not, I fail to understand your position. You want “a free trip to Hong Kong” which sounds great. Let’s give every MileagePlus member a free trip to Hong Kong. Why not?

As you point out, deals come and go. You have acknowledged previously that you can’t get in on them all and furthermore you’ve made a point of telling people not to be greedy. Exactly how is seeking a free trip to which you aren’t entitled to (it’s not like they published an award chart with a 4 mile award) not an example of greed?

I respect you, Rick, even when I disagree with your opinions here and elsewhere or your business decisions surrounding this blog. And I respect your opinion in this matter but I flat out don’t understand it.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Erik. I have skin in this game and have an eticket that was issued by United, charged my credit card, then cancelled without even the courtesy of notifying me. I am in until the DOT rules and will live with their decision.

s_k_m

I guess you’re cool with stealing then. Like, when my local deli handed me back a fifty instead of a fiver, even though the till clearly stated the proper change, I simply assumed he wanted to reward my custom. Why wouldn’t I? If you say otherwise you are the scum of the earth. Or the opposite.
Bob

Pretty negative feedback here thus far, FTG. I can see both sides of this, and won’t bite your head off for trying. I’m also one for trying to hold companies big and small accountable for their customer service.
However, I’d like to see you follow up this post with something on Mon or Tues that offers a thoughtful response to the reader feedback you’re getting for this decision.
whytravelsomuch??

United didnt post a 4 mile fare. It posted the correct mileage amounts for an award ticket and due to a technical glitch the final pages of the reservation/ticketing process showed 4 miles not the correct mileage. So anybody thinking they would get away with a 4 mile ticket when the initial screen showed a much higher mileage amount is crazy.

Gustav316

It doesn’t matter what was posted on the page as the milage requirement in my view, the fact of the matter is that the company’s computer booking system is its authorized agent to offer and accept reservations; the offer was changed at the screen immediately preceding the purchase and therefore was the offered price even though it was extremely low. As the principal, UAL is fully liable for the acts of its agents. Additionally, under a modern view of contracts, UAL would not likely be able to avoid honoring their obligations since they were the party that bore the risk of such mistake. I’m sure UAL’s insurance would indemnify them against this loss too.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Bob, I can respond right now. this has been the most decisive mistake fare discussion I’ve seen in my eleven years on Flyertalk. The thing that amazes me is how vehement those on the other side of the argument are? And the language is really something? We are talking about miles and points, not life and death.

Flyertalk was originally a site where we all cheered one another on during a mistake fare. the moralists seem to be saying we should be held to a higher moral standard than united. I personally disagree. if I make a mistake in booking they gladly charge me the change fee without waiver. what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.

again, I’ll gladly accept the decision of the DOT. my question is, if the DOT rules my way will the moralists be outraged that the rule of law was upheld?

the offensive language btw is coming from the other side. remember gang, it’s only miles and points

Bob

As surprised as everyone is today by FTG’s actions in filing a DOT claim, I’m even more surprised and shocked by the aggressive, holier-than-thou attitude of some of these readers. My goodness.
FTG can easily be considered one of the godfathers of this miles&points hobby. A lot of those other, younger bloggers we all read each morning were taught the hobby directly by FTG, or were inspired by his blog.
I check about five miles&points blogs each morning as I eat breakfast. Even after all these years, FTG still posts more original content on a daily basis than almost anyone else. Many newer blogs out there (I’m eyeing you, Boarding Area group) simply copy and regurgitate each others’ content and have grown stale.

These readers need to drop their judgement, nearly everyone who has embraced this hobby has taken advantage of the system in some way, large or small. What most of us do with these credit cards could be argued as abusive by some.

The US government passed a law last year that should have a direct influence on this situation with United. FTG is simply prompting the system, DOT, to make an official ruling on the situation, an official action that will help everyone in this hobby see mistake fares more clearly in the long run.

Where else are you all gonna take your precious referral link clicks? To Lucky’s blog where he copied The Points Guy’s analysis of BA award options, or are you gonna swing your loyalty behind The Points Guy, because you loved his post on a great Ireland redemption that came a few days after Lucky broke it? Those are two generic examples I’ve made there, but don’t start thinking a few of these bloggers are any more honorable than our veteran here, FTG.

Wingfoot

lol…god father? Purlee….Nothing written here can’t be found on FT. Matter of fact most of the contents here are extracted from FT. I never liked this blog because it adds nothing to my knowledge from reading FT. Plus, there’s something about the blogger that rubs me the wrong way. This blog is good for newbies, but for people who knows the game, it’s nothing worth reading. All you see all ads peddling credit cards and hot air.

Georgyporgy

You are coming off like a complete overly entitled douchebag now.

When the United CFO called elites “over-entitled” a few months ago I thought he was out of line but now I see what he means.

You knew full and well this was a glitch. With mistake fares you win some and you lose some. Consider it a loss and just let it go for goodness sakes.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

nice language over miles and points? I’ll consider it a loss when It is indeed over and for me that’s when the dot rules

Rick

Childish old man. Karma going to get to you. Dont die from a heart attack now

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Thanks for your kind words. They have led a lot to this discussion. Why the hate and venom? Because I don’t agree with you?

Rick

Your greed.

Moment of Clarity

Rick, I’m kind of disappointed in you right now. I’ve been reading your blog for some time now. I have used several of your referral links and taken a fantastic trip to Europe and throughout Asia thanks to those points and some of the tips on your blog. But something isn’t right, and I’m concerned that either I misjudged you, or one of us has simply changed. I don’t have a problem with trying for a homerun on a mistake fare. If they honor it, great. If not, you move on. But the vitriol, DDOT complaints and threat of litigation are simply too much. I’ve often felt like you were one of the adults in the FF rooms filled with children who don’t have jobs or spouses or perspective. But I guess I was wrong. I agree with those that have accused you and others of acting like over-entitled children. You assert in one of your reply comments that the anger is coming from those who think the community is acting poorly. I would encourage you to re-review the FT thread and carefully and honestly consider the sum total of irrational and unnecessarily aggressive and derogatory posts from those defending your position. This community fails when the airlines, hotel chains and others become the enemy. Many of the newer community members seem to view this as “us” vs “them”. This used to be a symbiotic relationship.

The most upsetting part of your actions is the claim of discrimination on behalf of aged or physically limited people. Many of your posts talk of (what I have always assumed to be) a sincere appreciation for the wounded warriors. Many of those vets come back with serious limitations. They require help from all of us and reasonable accommodations from businesses to thrive in every day life. By making a wholly insincere claim based on discrimination against those who are aged or mobility challenged, you make it harder for those vets and others who are legitimately in need and discriminated against. Just because you can make an argument doesn’t mean you should.

Like yourself, I know a little bit about addiction. At the risk of offending I am going to suggest that some of your behavior here reflects some of the warning signs that I have seen in myself and others. In my experience, one doesn’t just go off the rails overnight. It starts with small rationalizations. “I am just keeping them honest.” “They did the same thing to me.” “No one is getting hurt.” “My behavior isn’t wrong, everyone else’s is.” “They have enough so even if my behavior is wrong it isn’t really hurting anyone.” The problem is that the actor can’t often see the sum total of their own actions. So you might want to consider why many of us seem to think you are behaving differently than we previously perceived.

I truly appreciate what you have done to help me to this point. But I cannot continue to enable a man whose behavior indicates a problem. I have too much respect for myself, the program and you. I will be unable to click on your revenue links and, although I may check in on you from time to time, I doubt your blog will be my first read, a must read or anything more than a casual read from this day forward.

I implore you to take honest stock of your behavior.

https://plus.google.com/101327296180960753345 FrugalTravelGuy

thanks for your reply. if you read my comment in the thread you’ll clearly see I never claimed age discrimination but accepted that I made a mistake by not acting quickly enough. I’m going to respect the letter of the law with the dot decision. am I no longer entitled my day?
Dissapointed

Wow, very well said.
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Just to assure you , I have taken stock of my position and will hold be it as for me it is the correct decision, regardless of what others so hatefully say. I am entitled to and want the DOT to decide, plain and simple. Have we been reduced to a society where disagreement between parties is settled by vicious statements and threats? I certainly haven’t made any.

And if you will reread my comments on age and my follow up comment on the Flyertalk thread you may be able to see that I never claimed age discrimination. You may have been led down that path by other commenters not me. I made the mistake of not booking the trip the next day based on my lack of quick thinking.

And if you go to another blog for your information I wish you the best of luck and success. If I was to change my opinion on the decision I made logically and with great thought because of those leaving the blog or not using my referrals that would be a great personal tragedy. I will sleep very well tonight with my decision. I hope you will with your as well. Sorry to see you go.

Stephen

I’m pretty sure that you tried to use age discrimination against United. Say what you will, but you definitely implied age discrimination when you said “…it would be discriminatory to allow them to travel at that rate and not
me. I am a senior citizen and couldn’t make arrangements that quickly to
travel yesterday.”
http://twitter.com/BrianKlick Brian Klick

Hi Rick,

I must say I wholeheartedly agree with the original comment. I, too, was very surprised, perhaps shocked, to keep reading about your hard stance on the issue.   I, too, thought that from reading your blog for quite a long time, that you felt that entities should never be “punished” for mistake fares (and by punished, meaning that they need to honor them all).

The most disturbing part is actually the response to this comment – you use words such as “hate” and “threats”. I can only assume you are not talking about this particular commenter, but by other posts.   But the reality is – those that the words you chose to use when responding. It’s almost as if you are taking it as a personal insult.

The commenter is 100% right, and there is not one shred of hate, indecency, or threats in his message. Stating that he will no longer click on the revenue links or may read other blogs first is certainly not a threat in any way – it’s how he feels, and how I feel exactly as well.

As far as the age discrimination – I was surprised you just didn’t come out and apologize for the wording. Any rational person who read your post would think you are claiming discrimination based on age – I read your post BEFORE any of the other comments and my immediate reaction was shock and disbelief that it was said.    Now I do appreciate that you came out and said that’s not what you meant – I just think it could have gone a step further and apologized for the awful wording and it would have been smoothed over quite a bit more.

No one is asking you to change your opinion based on loss of readers or anything like that.   I think most of us hope that you will change your opinion because it’s simply the right thing to do.   We simply cannot become a community pouncing on mistake fares, mistake prices, or whatever – and try to take any company to town because of an error.   I’ve seen more and more of this on FT over the years – and it’s quite scary how so many on FT really have a growing sense of entitlement. It’s a danger to us all, and quite frankly it’s why so many have a disparaging view on the US and it’s litigious society.     A company makes a mistake, and people jump out of their chairs threatening to sue unless they honor an obvious mistake. It’s shameful in my mind.

For the record, yes of course I booked one flight and hoped it would be honored.   And when it wasn’t, as with all the other pricing mistakes or fare mistakes, I move on with an “Oh well, that would’ve been nice.” I miss that attitude now, as it seems like what used to be the majority had it, not it’s the minority.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

thanks for the reply.
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Brian if you read my initial post on FT, I think you’ll see I took and am still taking the position of compromise. A little hard line rhetoric until the decision is rendered is just that

Kha

I used to enjoy reading this blog, but after the attitude I’ve seen displayed from this fiasco I think I’ll stick to reading the other guys. Good riddance.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

sorry to see you go, but I guess if I’m not entitled to my own opinion you are better off elsewhere

FloridaFlyer

Rick, you’re taking this too far. Your zeal for the “game” is going to cost you readers and referrals. It’s not worth it for a free trip that do not deserve and to which you are not entitled.

I, like many of the commenters below, am disappointed in your attitude.I had little hope that this obvious technical glitch would be honored. When it wasn’t I just said “oh well” and moved on with my life. Filing claims, accusing the airline of discrimination against a senior citizen…it’s actually somewhat concerning. For the sake of your blog, your reputation in the FF community, and your sanity, I’d recommend taking the “oh well” route as well.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

I am exactly taking the “oh well” route. Always have. When the agency involved of policing the activity rules, I’ll gladly accpet their decision, and we will then have the precedent we need

James Andrews

they never “posted the four mile fare”… it was the full price throughout booking until the glitch at the end, even the last page showing the correct amoutn.

you are really being exposed here as the person you are. its in the best interest of everyone that this gets let go (i.e. United will push back the harder you push). but you’ve never cared about any of that, as long as you got yours
David

Yep, bookmark deleted.
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Thats it. Just let the DOT rule. Why is everybody so afraid , or jumping the gun, when the logical solution is to let the DOT decide. End of the line for me.
Dissapointed

Rick, I think it is reasonable to file a complaint with the DOT and then live with what they decide. However, I think if you go back and read how you started your post, you can understand why you sounded like a spoiled child who isn’t getting his way. After all, you are the one who stated that the number one reason you filed with the DOT is you want a free trip to Hong Kong.

I understand being frustrated with how United handled things, but I think most reasonable individuals will not automatically draw a line between poor communication/PR on United’s part and your deserving a free trip to Hong Kong.

And, as others have said, United never “posted the four mile fare”. The fact that you didn’t even do your own booking and therefore didn’t see screens involved only further makes you sound like a whiny child. I am curious, did United take four miles from your account, or were one of the one’s that had no miles taken because they didn’t have enough miles in their account to cover the miles needed per those unseen screens and United’s published mileage award tables?
Amber

I think the problem here is that you have a personal vendetta towards United. The 20 billion of us who have a moral compass and did not take advantage of the mistake fare can see the big picture. We don’t want reward tickets and paid tickets to go up just to cover the losses that are incurred because of you entitled people. As far as “good for the goose” comment, is that really the tune you would be singing if Andrew or Shannon or Katybug made a mistake at work and got fired and could no longer provide for themselves. Instead of saying ” United needs to do the right thing”, be the bigger man and let it go. It’s really the way that you come across when you speak that is upsetting. I think after your European cruise, you dug yourself a hole by saying something that people took the wrong way. Maybe bloggers should take a Dale Carnegie course before they attempt writing to the world.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Amber, so maybe you are afraid the cost of your ticket is going to go up? is that the real issue here? Believe me, these seats go to non revs and those upgraded with status. There were still 10 seats out of twelve on the flight I booked using this fare.

Personal vendetta no? Should a billion dollar company live by the same rules I have to when I make a mistake booking a ticket? I think that is fair. If I book a ticket to Birmingham England instead of Birmingham Alabama, United makes me pay for my mistake.

http://twitter.com/milesmomma1 Miles Momma

Rick,Just wanted to say that I’ve always appreciated your blog and you’ve been a huge inspiration to me over years. So sorry for all these nasty comments attacking you personally. It always amazes me how adults have to use profanity to express themselves. I wouldn’t take your actions in this situation but I do see your point in wanting United to be held to the rules. I know as a blogger you need to have thick skin and I’m sure you do. But I just wanted to leave you an encouraging message. Thanks for your blog. I may not always agree with all your methods, strategies or perspectives but I appreciate the information you offer the community.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

thank you miles momma. We do Need to have thick skin and the reaction is astounding to me with the venom being thrown.
dhammer53

I agree with Miles Momma. The first thing I learned when I went online was this (or blog).
I’ve always said on Flyertalk that there are ways to make your point known (productively), without calling someone an (fill in the blank).

Constructive criticism adds credibility to a comment. Virtual attacks turn me off to what’s being written.

After all the mean comments, I’m beginning to wonder who’s in the wrong here. My 2 cents.

FYI, I have no dog in this fight.

Tom

Rick,
I am one of your regular readers who keeps coming back to your blog even though you’ve said and done controversial things. However, I think you’re crossing the line between standing on your principal and coming across as bitter. Like people say, good things must come to an end. This is it for me. I have decided to stop reading your blog and more importantly stop clicking on your referral links. I just spoke with a friend regarding this post and he too will go somewhere for points and miles information. And judging from what others said, you might be losing a few more readers. Thanks for all the info you’ve given us. It was great while it lasted.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

thank you for your thoughtful and pertinent reply. I have to carefully look at my motives just as you do. I can respect your opinion differing and am in hopes you can respect mine. is it unreasonable of me to wait for a ruling from the DOT? they make the decision.

I may lose readers for expressing my opinion. Nothing that has been said sways me from wanting the DOT to rule on the issue. What are all of you afraid of anyway? I’d lose respect for myself if I let the possibility of losing referral links sway my opinion.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Thank you all for the lively discussion and varied opinions. As I’ve said before I have never in my eleven years seen such an outcry over a mistake fare. Name calling, vulgarity and threats do not serve any useful purpose in the discussion. Please refrain in the future. We can all disagree. My question is what is the motivation for the animosity? Fear of loss? I’m not entitled to my opinion if it doesn’t match yours?

And mostly, if you on the opposite side are so sure of yourselves, why can’t you indulge the old man a few days to see what the DOT says?

whytravelsomuch??

most of us also take issue with the fact that the limited resources to handle complaints at the DOT are being taken up by BS complaints like this one.. save the resources of the DOT for REAL complaints.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

And that I never even considered. Thanks for adding to the discussion. Valid point

Ron

Rick, I am appreciative of the useful information that you have imparted since I’ve been reading your blog. However, I am disappointed in your response to this situation.

In this case, as you know even though you did not book your own flight, United priced the trips appropriately until the final page(s) showing the mistake. The difference may be subtle, but I find this to be a different situation from when a mistaken low fare is consistently demonstrated and offered to prompt a booking. In this case, one cannot claim that United was misleading anyone.

I am disappointed in your claim of discrimination (via FT thread) that, because you are a senior citizen, you were unable to leave the US for Asia promptly in order to qualify for United honoring your booking. The argument is absurd and is insulting to those who truly experience discrimination in one form or another.

Furthermore, you claim that you should get your flight for 4 miles because you have a valid transactional receipt from United. OK, I can understand that sentiment. Yet, what would happen if you engaged in a legal transaction to buy a work of art which shortly thereafter was found to be stolen from its original and rightful owner? The piece would be returned to its rightful owner even though you paid for it with a legitimate transaction… and had a receipt to prove it.

Certainly, you are well within your rights to file a claim with the DOT. Who knows? You may win. But, will that make you right? Hopefully, some DOT clarification will be forthcoming. Hopefully, United will learn to better communicate with its account holders individually … rather than through Milepoint or FT forums.

Frankly, I find other bloggers’ responses to this situation to be more thougtful and mature than those I’ve read on your blog. Yet, you are entitled to your opinions and your readers can make their own determinations as to whether or not to continue to read your blog and click on your links to provide you with additional income.
Adam1222

Rick has often straddled the line between “frugal” and “schnorrer” — as evidenced when he accuses credit card companies of having the nerve of asking him personal questions before extending him lines of credit and giving him points. Alas, any doubt is now resolved: Schnorrer Travel Guy it is.
For the non-Yiddish speakers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnorrer

Found this funny

Best. Comment. Yet.

Cory

I think this episode, along with the Cartera/AA Shopping Mall 83,000 mile incident, have shown the ugly side of this community. On both side. Plenty of it on the comments of this post. On FT I think the ongoing discussion was the extremes. You had the morals police who got on their pulpit and the over entitled litigious side. Like a train wreck, I just couldn’t look away.

I also don’t like how United handled this. I filed a complaint, not with DOT, but to United directly. I don’t expect anyone of importance to read this or for it to make a difference. I always wanted my ticket honored, but that’s pure selfishness. I wanted the ticket honored because United decided that was the right thing to do. Not because DOT forced them to. United had a probably tiny coding error that was blown up into something huge and costly. I am a small government, libertarian type so naturally I don’t feel the DOT has any place in this matter. Consumer Protection is a good thing, but not a soul has been harmed in any real way through this incident, except United itself. Self inflicted, yes. But I am no better or worse off today without a ticket than I was 10 days ago, also without a ticket.

Rick, I appreciate the service and information you’ve provided. You’ve responded to emails I’ve had with questions. I will continue reading the information you provide for now. As to FT, I would like to believe your subsequent explanations for the age discrimination claim. But, it’s hard to when you read that original response. I like to think of myself as a pretty smart guy who can see context and understand the comment being made. You may not have intended for it to come across that way, but like it or not it came across as you feeling discriminated against because you’re a senior citizen who was incapable of arranging travel to depart the same day you booked. I recall being similarly surprised at some of your statements on the 83,000 Cartera Commerce issue. It’s your blog, so of course speak freely. But, I don’t believe your attitude (and those of others who continue to fight this) in either situation added positively to our travel hacker community.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Cory, I greatly respect your insight on the situation and agree in principle with what you are saying . Personally I could not take my beef to UA as I’m quite sure they would blow me off without any thought. I’m really interested in how this all comes out. This is a huge test of our system and rules for the future will be established here.

Thanks

chairmanmeow

Rick, you’ve completely disappointed me. You should learn from Lucky and just move on. You are completely out of control.
Bam

You know that new great card coming out in a week or so that you’ll no doubt be promoting?

Guess what? I’ll read the post, learn, then take my $150 click somewhere else.

I’m ashamed for signing up for a SPG card through a link of yours last year.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Here is a tip, cancel the SPG card and in two years you can get one again and a new sign up bonus

Best of luck to you

Tahsir Ahsan

Rick,
I’ve looked up to you ever since I started this points game 3 years ago. I’m 20 years old and have logged into your page every day to look at your posts and applaud your humility when it comes to travel. You truly are someone that people respect, but please do remember that with respect, comes great power and scrutiny.

Although I don’t say the 4 mile mistake was wrong for you to get in on, I do say that you set a major example for many people out there. You have thousands of followers around the world that look up to your advice. The fact that something as small as a 4 mile mistake fare could get you so riled up doesn’t make sense. You should consider yourself lucky to even travel the way you do. I know I do and I never take it for granted. I think you’d agree that traveling around the world is a very humbling experience. The places you’ve been and the things you’ve done are amazing and bring me to your blog every day!

I honestly believe that you shouldn’t take this to heart.

I’m an avid reader and will continue to be, but this shouldn’t be taken so harshly.

Even though you might think that United is wrong in this case, just think of what they’ve given you in the past years. You and many other readers have received a ticket to see the world with United, often times as a mistake or major credit card churn. That’s not something everyone can do.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Tahsir, thanks for the comment but ”
power and respect” I’m a blogger plain and simple.nothing more. I am not the press or an expert by any means. I have shared the things I have learned over the years and shared them on a blog.

Years ago people shared info with me on how to do this. That is all I’m doing here

Point of Clarification

In my opinion you lost the “I’m just a blogger” status when you went corporate. You’re actually “just a businessman” now.
Jay

Not an expert? For years, wasn’t your motto “the worlds
Expert on flying free”?
tahsir21

I applaud you for sharing what you found and that’s why i’ll continue to read your blog. Just making sure that like you’ve taught others over the years, not to take anything for granted !

I wish you the best of luck in this case Rick!

Tom

COME ON, FOLKS!!! He’s a BLOGGER, not an Ethicist. I come here for the deals, not to have my moral compass oriented for me. I’ll decide for myself whether to pursue a given course of action, and so will he.

I say, live and let live. If he wants to complain to the DOT or even sue United, that’s his issue. I’ll still be here, awaiting the next deal.

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/ Frugal Travel Guy

Amen. Why people put bloggers on some kind of pedestal is way beyond me. We are people, travel hackers just like you. Nothing more. Nothing less. There are two sides to this issue, just like Democrats and Republicans.

I am not your spokesman nor to be looked up to. I’m just like you but have a pen in my hand and a few years playing the game.

Thank you Tom for putting this in the right perspective

rick

Serion

Wow, I had to stop reading these comments half way through. Most seem to be written by hate filled people. I think it’s fine to disagree, but do so like an adult. Rick, I am also waiting on the DOT ruling.
JJ

The 4 miles total was shown BEFORE the ticket was purchased and ticket confirmation sent. Since when is a receipt not a receipt, and when is a confirmation not a confirmation?

Here’s where to file to complaint with DOT:
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm
http://www.russthoughts.com Russ Savage

I have no problems with this post or your opinion. I read blogs like this for just this kind of craziness.

I have to say that going through the comments and attacking your own (former) readers with sarcasm and disrespect seems a little much. It reminds me of the store owner that berates his own customers. It’s not the course of action I would take, but then again, I don’t write a travel blog.
Lance

I did not get in on this deal, and wish I had… I know mistake fares
have been pretty dry for a while,,, and this one brought a lot of
excitement… It’s kind of like being hungry for weeks, and then seeing a
huge spread of all your favorite foods that you salivate and salivate
over but just can’t eat. I really feel all the pain that this one has
caused those that have got in, and kick myself for not getting in and
going right away like the few who booked and flew immediately. I will
add that to my list of techniques for mistakes

However, I do think we should all just close the book on this one and move on…
Just about everything that could or should be said on both sides of the
debate have been. At this point, it’s just causing anger and severing
the community. Yes this was a great fair, but lawsuits and constant DOT
nagging are not going to change the outcome at this point. Let’s just
wait and see. To some degree, I’m glad that the DOT is allowing for a
break on this one. They need to develop a better set of rules and stand by them.

United and all the airlines are still not at peak financial health, and I
think this will be a lesson that will cost them money and reputation,
and hopefully make them better for it. I have definitely got a lot of
vouchers over past mistakes from United, and I think they are the most
generous airline in terms of customer relations. I would be shocked if
people affected did not get at least $150 vouchers or miles with one
well written email to customer relations. I switched most of my business
to AA as soon as they announced no restriction on SWU. When I have a
legitimate complaint on AA, they at most throw me some miles… United
consistently made up for their mistakes with apologies and vouchers. I
don’t expect this situation to be any different.

They learned a lesson that will cost them. Honoring all the thousands
who got a 140k + fare for peanuts would cause too much damage compared
to the smaller gain of appeasing some of us gamers who got in on a
massive mistake over the weekend…

In my humble opinion, it’s time to close the book on this one and move on. At this point the discussion is devolving and causing more harm than help…
Tinarich1

Reading all the posts makes me wonder if a free trip to Hong Kong is worth losing your loyal followers? If you are by definition “just a blogger” than I would assume having your blogs read is your main objective. (not to mention the $ made through affiliate links) I agree that this particular deal just feels wrong. No need to be greedy. …..Just my 2 cents
Randall

Rick, the one thing that I will commend you on is the fact that you have the balls to say what you mean and stand behind it. You posted your dissatisfaction to United’s response, which is completely within your rights to do, and frankly I find it disturbing that a company with a great relationship with its customers would act in this manner. It seems they not only canceled the reservations without following up with each passenger like they said they would, but they also are not standing behind the “mistake fare” pubic statements they made prior to this issue.

What I commend you one even more is the fact that you are openly discussing this issue. The Points Guy booked the same fare, yet I haven’t heard a peep from his blog. [EDITED CONTENT] Is he afraid of United? This is a very controversial issue and one that deserve attention, yet he is silent on this matter. I believe he has become one of the corporate cronies that only cares about making money and not discussing major issue that are important to this community. What a disgrace!

Thank you Rick for being a standup guy and talking about the hard issue, unlike some worthless bloggers we know.
Carolbancs

Hi Rick,

I’m a student coming here looking for ethical views on this United issue and I must start by saying, your readers are BRUTAL!. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment but for varying reasons. Let me throw in my $.50 and have them eat me up: I booked a flight to Los Angeles from Chicago in 2010 with the wrong departure date (long day, work, stress, seeing double)…long story short, the initial ticket was $323 at 9:15pm. The next morning I look up my confirmation, notice the date and call reservations to change it. After a 55 minute call (12 automated selections, 22 on hold 21 actual fix) the bottom line was I had to pay $150 change fee and the ticket price was now $525(same class closer date) so an additional $202 was needed- ringing the total cost of my mistake at $352 and the my total charge to $675, which I had to pay because there were no other flights left. Flash now to 2012 and its United in the ‘mistake’ hot seat – the same theory should apply, they should honor their mistake and in this case, aspiring to be ethical,we won’t charge them a ‘change fee’ (damages), just the basic: honor people’s tickets, issue a sincere aplogy and abide by DOT ruling, whatever that may be.
http://twitter.com/tejashpatel Tejash Patel

Any feeling on when we can expect an update on this from DOT / United?
Curious Flyer

Hi Rick, I came across this and actually know quite a few angered United customers pertaining to this issue and we’re wondering if there is a lawsuit going on. Do you have any details on that?

Also, did DOT finally rule on this?